The judge in the trial of Tamara Lich and Chris Barber, Heather Perkins-McVey, has reserved another two weeks for court proceedings as the Crown attempts to include nine witnesses to give “observational testimony” to further their pursuit of the Carter Application. .Lich and Barber each face charges mischief, intimidation, obstructing a police officer, counselling mischief not committed, counselling intimidation not committed and counselling to obstruct a police officer not committed. Barber is also facing a charge of counselling to breach a court order not committed. .The trial proceedings Monday centred around whether the Crown should be allowed to call nine witnesses, downtown Ottawa residents and business owners, to the stand to offer testimony. .While the Crown said these nine witnesses are “necessary” to establish the offences of “counselling and intimidation,” Lawrence Greenspon, counsel for Lich, said “Nothing that any of these witnesses would say would support the charges.” .Greenspon argued the defence had already acknowledged downtown residents experienced “an interference with the lawful enjoyment of property,” and therefore, “What possible evidence could these (nine) witnesses have that would assist?”. “We have the ability to characterize the nature of the evidence [the Crown] will be calling,” Greenspon said. “What does that have to do with any of the charges in the face of the admission that’s been made?”.“For ‘trial efficiency’ you can’t call evidence to prove fact that’s been admitted. The Crown is trying to prove something it doesn’t have to prove. [It wants] to prove “that this was not a peaceful protest. Well, that’s nowhere in the charges.”.McVey said she does not wish to hear the “scope and impact” if it is not relevant to the charges. She reminded the Crown of its opening statement, “This is not the trial of the Freedom Convoy,” and advised all evidence should be directly related to Lich, Barber, and their specific charges, or else the trial will go on “ad infinitum,” or go on forever. .Marwa Younes, counsel to Barber, pointed out the Crown need not call these nine testimonies “evidence.”.“This should be seen as an objection to the Crown calling witnesses that are unnecessary in light of this admission,” she said. “We are admitting the essential elements of mischief are made out.”.Crown prosecutor Siobhain Wetscher defined the terms: “[Lich and Barber] were reckless in counselling others to block streets and (slow roll) highways, generating noise and air pollution, crowdfunding and donations to keep protesters in Ottawa, counselling others to come to Ottawa to join the demonstration.”.“This is ultimately a trial about what happened in this city during the offence period and Lich/Barber’s connection with that,” Wetcher continued, claiming witness testimony is “nuanced” and “goes beyond” the offences charged. .“They have lived experience,” she continued. “The Crown maintains the best evidence will come from the civilians.”.The judge’s criteria for hearing from the witnesses includes ensuring the civilians aren’t repeating themselves and she wants to know in advance what each witness will say (essentially) in their testimony. .The witnesses in question have testimonies about traffic and commuting inconveniences, the blocking of vehicles, the “nature of some demonstrators,” noise complaints, smells of exhaust, and urination and garbage..“When the Crown says another witness will speak to exhaust smell, the Court wonders how the witness will be able to distinguish between exhaust from police vehicles and trucks,” The Democracy Fund (TDF) tweeted. “The Crown may want to have victim impact statements introduced now in an attempt to show that the protest had specific negative effects on the city and residents of Ottawa, with the goal being to link these effects to the alleged conduct of the accused.”.“The court makes it clear that it will not allow evidence to be called for the purpose of “impact” because that is not relevant at this stage. If it has another purpose, that may be considered,” TDF continued. “The court is concerned that the Crown now intends to use these witnesses for its Carter Application, and that was not initially clear to the defense.”.The Carter Application is when the Crown will use the words and actions of Lich against Barber and vice versa, in an attempt to prove they were part of a “conspiracy.”.“The evidence of the civilian witness goes beyond just the offences charged,” said the Crown attorney. .“Did you understand this for the Carter application? Justice Perkins-McVey asked the defense. .“We received the Carter application at 3:21 am,” Magas responded. .“For the record, Crown provided this the 7th of September” the Crown said. .“Again I have not had a chance since 3:21 am,” Magas said. .“I would hope you didn’t have time,” said the judge, to which the gallery laughed. .The trial then proceeded to its next stage, though still a voir dire, or trial within a trial. The Crown called Sergeant Joanne Pilotte to return to the stand, who testified the first week about social media footage she had reviewed relevant to the protest. More video was presented, this time a February 7, 2022 live stream meeting of Barber, Tom Marazzo, and other convoy participants. .“[It’s time to] sit down at the table” to negotiate with the local government,” Marazzo said in the video. “[A resolution] can only be reached through political dialogue, not police action.”.“It was a party here over the weekend,” Marazzo continued. “I don’t think you can put bouncy castles and insurrection in the same sentence.” He said the “alarmist” messages from city officials were not helping, refutes the claim there was chaos in the streets, notes crime rates in Ottawa had dropped 90% during the protest, and relationship with police on the ground has been “excellent.”.Marazzo also thanked “Ottawa residents for their patience and said their anger should be directed at feds,” tweeted Aedan Helmer from the courtroom. .“One speaker objected to strong language used by police during a police board hearing. The speaker asked for peaceful protest and encouraged political dialogue,” TDF tweeted. “As a sign of good faith, the speaker sought a reduction in honking and de-escalation.”.“The speaker reiterated that the protesters were there because of the mandates. He said they wanted to speak to both the federal and municipal government. The speaker says ‘we can always use more trucks,’” TDF continued. .“We are seeing provincial mandates lifted,” Barber said in the video. “I think we’re moving mountains here. Provincial mandates are being lifted across the country.”.“We’re doing ok, lots of moving parts but it’s coming together beautifully,” Lich is heard saying in another video. “I feel very positive about the outcome.”.“We have to stick together and remain unified. Please keep spreading love, please keep it peaceful.”
The judge in the trial of Tamara Lich and Chris Barber, Heather Perkins-McVey, has reserved another two weeks for court proceedings as the Crown attempts to include nine witnesses to give “observational testimony” to further their pursuit of the Carter Application. .Lich and Barber each face charges mischief, intimidation, obstructing a police officer, counselling mischief not committed, counselling intimidation not committed and counselling to obstruct a police officer not committed. Barber is also facing a charge of counselling to breach a court order not committed. .The trial proceedings Monday centred around whether the Crown should be allowed to call nine witnesses, downtown Ottawa residents and business owners, to the stand to offer testimony. .While the Crown said these nine witnesses are “necessary” to establish the offences of “counselling and intimidation,” Lawrence Greenspon, counsel for Lich, said “Nothing that any of these witnesses would say would support the charges.” .Greenspon argued the defence had already acknowledged downtown residents experienced “an interference with the lawful enjoyment of property,” and therefore, “What possible evidence could these (nine) witnesses have that would assist?”. “We have the ability to characterize the nature of the evidence [the Crown] will be calling,” Greenspon said. “What does that have to do with any of the charges in the face of the admission that’s been made?”.“For ‘trial efficiency’ you can’t call evidence to prove fact that’s been admitted. The Crown is trying to prove something it doesn’t have to prove. [It wants] to prove “that this was not a peaceful protest. Well, that’s nowhere in the charges.”.McVey said she does not wish to hear the “scope and impact” if it is not relevant to the charges. She reminded the Crown of its opening statement, “This is not the trial of the Freedom Convoy,” and advised all evidence should be directly related to Lich, Barber, and their specific charges, or else the trial will go on “ad infinitum,” or go on forever. .Marwa Younes, counsel to Barber, pointed out the Crown need not call these nine testimonies “evidence.”.“This should be seen as an objection to the Crown calling witnesses that are unnecessary in light of this admission,” she said. “We are admitting the essential elements of mischief are made out.”.Crown prosecutor Siobhain Wetscher defined the terms: “[Lich and Barber] were reckless in counselling others to block streets and (slow roll) highways, generating noise and air pollution, crowdfunding and donations to keep protesters in Ottawa, counselling others to come to Ottawa to join the demonstration.”.“This is ultimately a trial about what happened in this city during the offence period and Lich/Barber’s connection with that,” Wetcher continued, claiming witness testimony is “nuanced” and “goes beyond” the offences charged. .“They have lived experience,” she continued. “The Crown maintains the best evidence will come from the civilians.”.The judge’s criteria for hearing from the witnesses includes ensuring the civilians aren’t repeating themselves and she wants to know in advance what each witness will say (essentially) in their testimony. .The witnesses in question have testimonies about traffic and commuting inconveniences, the blocking of vehicles, the “nature of some demonstrators,” noise complaints, smells of exhaust, and urination and garbage..“When the Crown says another witness will speak to exhaust smell, the Court wonders how the witness will be able to distinguish between exhaust from police vehicles and trucks,” The Democracy Fund (TDF) tweeted. “The Crown may want to have victim impact statements introduced now in an attempt to show that the protest had specific negative effects on the city and residents of Ottawa, with the goal being to link these effects to the alleged conduct of the accused.”.“The court makes it clear that it will not allow evidence to be called for the purpose of “impact” because that is not relevant at this stage. If it has another purpose, that may be considered,” TDF continued. “The court is concerned that the Crown now intends to use these witnesses for its Carter Application, and that was not initially clear to the defense.”.The Carter Application is when the Crown will use the words and actions of Lich against Barber and vice versa, in an attempt to prove they were part of a “conspiracy.”.“The evidence of the civilian witness goes beyond just the offences charged,” said the Crown attorney. .“Did you understand this for the Carter application? Justice Perkins-McVey asked the defense. .“We received the Carter application at 3:21 am,” Magas responded. .“For the record, Crown provided this the 7th of September” the Crown said. .“Again I have not had a chance since 3:21 am,” Magas said. .“I would hope you didn’t have time,” said the judge, to which the gallery laughed. .The trial then proceeded to its next stage, though still a voir dire, or trial within a trial. The Crown called Sergeant Joanne Pilotte to return to the stand, who testified the first week about social media footage she had reviewed relevant to the protest. More video was presented, this time a February 7, 2022 live stream meeting of Barber, Tom Marazzo, and other convoy participants. .“[It’s time to] sit down at the table” to negotiate with the local government,” Marazzo said in the video. “[A resolution] can only be reached through political dialogue, not police action.”.“It was a party here over the weekend,” Marazzo continued. “I don’t think you can put bouncy castles and insurrection in the same sentence.” He said the “alarmist” messages from city officials were not helping, refutes the claim there was chaos in the streets, notes crime rates in Ottawa had dropped 90% during the protest, and relationship with police on the ground has been “excellent.”.Marazzo also thanked “Ottawa residents for their patience and said their anger should be directed at feds,” tweeted Aedan Helmer from the courtroom. .“One speaker objected to strong language used by police during a police board hearing. The speaker asked for peaceful protest and encouraged political dialogue,” TDF tweeted. “As a sign of good faith, the speaker sought a reduction in honking and de-escalation.”.“The speaker reiterated that the protesters were there because of the mandates. He said they wanted to speak to both the federal and municipal government. The speaker says ‘we can always use more trucks,’” TDF continued. .“We are seeing provincial mandates lifted,” Barber said in the video. “I think we’re moving mountains here. Provincial mandates are being lifted across the country.”.“We’re doing ok, lots of moving parts but it’s coming together beautifully,” Lich is heard saying in another video. “I feel very positive about the outcome.”.“We have to stick together and remain unified. Please keep spreading love, please keep it peaceful.”
